Lambretta strip and rebuild.

[Scootermonkey]

What would you say was a fair price for completely stripping a Lambretta scooter, full body and engine, and rebuilding it, not counting the cost of parts, just for labour?

[drunkmunkey6969]

Interesting question.

Did you ever read this thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=30003&hilit=Build+dream


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[drunkmunkey6969]

Here's an overview of the first post from that thread...

The various costs of building a ‘dream’ Lambretta……

The various costs of building a ‘dream’ Lambretta……

I think this is a very interesting topic, and an extremely contentious one at that! There are so many options, variables and considerations that its fair to say….there is no one answer which suits all. But the complexities and possibilities surrounding the subject have encouraged me to start a thread on it……I’m sure I’ll regret it! lol

Now please don’t take anything I write here as ‘absolute’ or ‘the only way’….I am of course summarising and trying to make broad statements to encompass as many of the facets that I can, and the prices are 'rounded' for ease of mathematics, but here’s my take on it.

If you look at the main categories of what’s involved in building a dream Lambretta, there’s a VERY broad spectrum of who/what what might be involved. There are various types of scooter ownership, varying from ‘I bought it 20 years ago for £25 and have never rebuilt it once, and will only use cheap/free parts when I do’…..right through to ’I want the most desirable/expensive model, completely built to a bespoke/custom level, using the highest-spec parts’…….and then of course everything which falls in between those two extremes. None of these are right or wrong, it’s all relative to the owner.

But how do we put some costs against these categories?

1) The ‘I bought it 20 years ago for £25 and have never rebuilt it once, and only use cheap parts when I do’. Well, that doesn't take much explaining in terms of cost, this bloke might ride it once a year in standard trim, or everyday for thousands of miles on a home-brew tune….its irrelevant. His budget goes elsewhere and he gets by on the scooter anyway he can, either doing it himself, or having club mates help him if/when needs be. That's an easy one to figure.

2) I’ve bought a scooter recently, and I now want it ‘upgrading’. Now a little more difficult, because it depends what you bought really and what upgrades you want. It might be a UK registered second hand SIL150 for £1500-£1800 or a brand new GP200 from AF or CamLam at £3250-£3750. On top of which….if it was used, what bits did it already come with, and if it was new…..what upgrades do you want? So lets suppose you are ‘tech-savvy’ and pay no labour, and either example came ‘bog standard’ and you want better: tyres £60?, better rear shock £150?, better front dampers £150?, disc brake kit £200?, cylinder kit £400, pipe £200?, carb £90?, crank £130?, Clutch £40? bearings-gaskets-oil-oil seals-plug-etc £85? So if a club mate helps you fit it all and set up timing/squish/jetting etc you are looking circa £1500 on parts? Plus the cost of original scooter so now the £2k scooter is £3500 and the £3750 scooter is £5250 just to get it up to the new ‘tech spec’ which is by no means ‘high-end’ but quite common amongst many Lambretta owners. And of course the scooter you bought has a basic 1 or 2 colour paint job (probably done overseas before importing) and so it looks clean and tidy at least.

But what if you want the scooter painting?

OK….so main three choices are:
1) Strip it, paint it, and rebuild it yourself. Cost-wise that’s a no brainer and the cheapest option…..it costs you paint and materials.

2) You strip it and rebuild it and have someone else spray it……now this varies wildly. If it’s a ‘mate with a compressor and a spray gun’ who is an enthusiastic amateur, he might charge a few hundred quid for the job. I’ve heard of people taking pre-prepped panels (blasting, welding and filling done) into car body shops of smaller garages and paying only £500-£800 for basic paintwork.

3) Then of course there are fully professional ‘scooter only’ paint shops who will accept the panels, do the blasting, welding, filling and other prep. Check panel alignment, and then do a custom spray job of the customer’s choice. I did a ‘ring round’ on this subject to speak to 4 or 5 scooter garages who I get on quite well with, and as regard doing this as your profession/sole income, here’s what most are charging (as an average). For a basic 1or 2 colour paint job, with the spray shop doing the blasting, welding, filling and other prep. Plus checking panel alignment, and then spraying, the average cost was £1800-£2000. For a ‘race paint’ job its £2500+, and of course for air-brushing murals…..the sky is the limit. Interestingly…..most spray shops DID NOT want to get involved in the strip and rebuild process, as this can be very time consuming and financially un-rewarding for a business. It can take up room and clog up workshops and slow down workloads. Any who did agree to do the strip/rebuild part of the process were asking £750-£1000 to do so, on top of the charge for painting.

Engine spec.

We touched on an example earlier, of adding £1500 worth of parts to a standard 200cc engine and having a mate fit the stuff. The example I used were quite common parts on many current scooters. But what if you wanted an all singing, all dancing high-end, big BHP top-spec engine…..what might that cost? Well I did a spreadsheet to add up the various costs of high end components, and here’s what I came up with:

High-Spec 'Base Unit' Engine:
New Engine Case, Cover & Mag House £410
Mid or Light Flywheel £80
BGM Stator £80
Jap Race Bearing pack £55
Casa/MB Rear Hub Bearing £35
Hi-Spec Race Chain £35
Front sprocket £20
Chain Slipper £15
MB Cylinder Studs/nuts/washers £20
CASA Engine Mounts £30
Cable adjuster block and swivel – Alloy Billet £100
Kickstart/spring/buffer/kickstart shaft/circlips/seal etc £100
Layshaft, Selectors, Arms, Sliding dog, Sleeve, Spring, Cap, Complete Case Stud Kit etc £150?
Cowls (Cylinder & Mag Cut and Painted) £75
Brake Shoes, Pegs, Springs, Circlips etc: £15
Gaskets, Seals, Plug & Oil £30
Misc, extras, nuts, bolts, shims, plates, circlips £30
Hi-Spec Engine Base Total £1,280

Now select the rest of the components from the menu categories below:

Engine Finish (case, cover, mag):
Powder Coat £100
2k Paint (1 flat colour) £150

Smallblock Kit:
RB20 £385
MB Race-Tour £440

Largeblock Kit:
MB RaceTour £440
Avanti TT3 £550
TS1 £410
RB250 £550

Head:
AF Low-Comp Head £35
Ron Moss Oversize head (20-30% cooler) Inc Cowl £ 150

Specialist alloy head, base & cowl packer kit £ 60

Carb:
25/26/30mm Delly PHBH £90
34mm Dellorto £ 170
39mm VHSH Dellorot Race Carb £245

Pipe:
MB Clubman £220
NK Rally £240
Franspeed Race or SuperTourer £295

Ignition:
KyTronik Variable Advance Ignition Unit £75

Gearbox:
4 speed Close ratio £ 100
5-Speed DRT/Rimini Cyclone £750
5-Speed Handle Bar Fitment £150

Crankshaft:
58/60/62mm Pro-Race Crank 116mm rod £295
58/60mm Race Crank 107 rod £135

Clutch:
Race 7 Plate LTH (30bhp+) £400
Full 6 Plate Scooterotica (20-30bhp) £300
Full 4/5 plate Scooterotica (upto 20bhp) £135

Rear Hub:
Rear Hub Powder Coated Black £55
Tino Safe Alloy £150


So take the High-Spec ‘Base Engine’ @ £1280 and then add your ‘wish list’ of components. Here’s 3 examples of the cost of just the components:

Cost of Parts Example 1
RB250 35bhp Fast Road Engine
Works Spec - High-Power: Inc RM Head, Variable Ign, 39mm Race Carb, Tino Hub & Powder Coat
Base Engine Unit £1,280
RB250 Kit £ 550
58/60/62mm Pro-Race Crank 116mm rod £295
Ron Moss Head Inc Cowl £165
Packer Kit (Base, Head & Cowl) £50
39mm Race Carb £245
Franspeed race pipe £295
KyTronik Variable Advance Ignition Unit £75
4 speed Close Ratio Gearbox £100
LTH 7 Plate Clutch £400
Tino Safe Alloy £150
Powder Coat £100
Total Parts (Plus Engine Build/Porting Labour etc & Dyno Setup if req) £3,705


Cost of Parts Example 2
RB250 30bhp SuperTourque Engine
SuperTour(que) Spec : Inc 5 Speed Cyclone - Pro-Race Crank, 6 Plate Clutch & NK Tour Pipe
Base Engine Unit £1,280
RB250 Kit £550
AF Low-Comp Tour Head £35
62mm Pro-Race Crank 116mm rod £295
34mm race Carb £170
NK Rally Pipe £240
5 Speed Cyclone Box £750
5-Speed Handle Bar Fitment £150
Full 6 Plate Scooterotica (20-30bhp) £300
Rear Hub Powder Coated Black £55
Total Parts (Plus Engine Build/Porting Labour etc & Dyno Setup if req) £3,825

Cost of Parts Example 3
MB 20bhp Race-Tour Engine
Original Race-Tour Engine: Quality Components & Smiles for Miles
Base Engine Unit £1,280
MB RT 225 Kit £440
MB RT Manifold £15
MB RT BigBox Clubman Exhaust £220
58/60mm Race Crank 107 rod £135
30mm carb £90
4 - Speed Close Ratio Gearbox £ 100
Full 4/5 plate Scooterotica (upto 20bhp) £135
Rear Hub Powder Coated Black £55
Total Parts (Plus Engine Build/Porting Labour etc & Dyno Setup if req) £2,470

So depending what spec, bhp level and type of engine you want.....anywhere between £2500 - £3800 on parts, and that’s BEFORE any labour for engine building of porting/tuning and dyno sessions.

Engine Build Labour:
Again, I had a ring round to half a dozen garages to see what the average cost of these charges were. Now I know there are lots of people on here who are mechanically minded and do this as a hobby so don’t need to hire a garage to do the job, but equally…..there are probably 20 times (guessed that number) that who cannot or do not want to wield a spanner and so need/want to pay someone. If it’s a clubmate who will do it for a few beers….great. If its an experienced part-timer (read: does it in evenings after 'work') for £150...great. But commercial garages, who pay for rent, rates, utilities, tools, staff, advertising, websites and so on…….what do they charge for a full engine rebuild, porting and dynoing?

Well I didn’t find anyone who runs a commercial scooter garage who would charge less than £600 for the labour on a high-end bespoke engine. One chap who shall remain nameless has a flat fee of £1000 for engine building, which to be honest even with overheads I thought was excessive. Having said that he has a queue of customers waiting for work! But the average came back at around £650-£750 for a high-end (meaning not a standard 200 strip and rebuild) job where the job was done to the garages own spec of shimming gearboxes, setting up clutch free play, component selection/matching, fettling components if/where required, setting ignition timing, port timing, compression ratios and squish to their own spec etc.

On top of this was tuning…… porting jobs varied (depending of level of tune required and the base components to start with) was it a cylinder only tour tune, or a full casings, kit, piston, head, manifold job? Was it cast iron or alloy etc? So prices varied from £100 for basic work, up to £300+ for exotic/detailed work. And extra if welding/machining/lathe work was required.

If you check out another thread on this forum where a commercial outlet have quoted a price of circa £4250 for a TS1 engine build inc top end components, and all machining, tuning, building work….you’ll see I’m not far off the mark with my estimates and his charges are quite reasonable for what you receive. Bare in mind the many number of engine builds and research it can take to find a decent 'formula' to build something special for a customer.

Interestingly we spoke to a guy about 3 weeks ago who had just picked his machine up from another well known outlet….it was a ‘desirable’ Italian base model which he bought to use as a basis for a custom street racer. He paid £2750 for the scooter, and then circa £2500 for paint, just under £3500 for engine components and the company charged £2500 flat fee for all labour associated with engine tuning, engine build, and scooter assembly. Total cost was in excess of £11k to get what he wanted, when he wanted it, the way he wanted it. As it turns out, the average price for a build from this particular company was £12k-£14k (including cost of scooter)….so his £11k was actually cheaper than the average.

It sound shocking to some when you put the numbers in black and white…..but I honestly believe there are a high number of scooter owners, who have probably over the years spent similar amounts 'here and there' in 'dribs and drabs' and still not even got what they wanted! So to be quite honest....doing it all in one hit, and to the 'dream spec' you desire often can be the most cost efficient way of doing it! One spend on one perfect scooter.....instead of numerous spends on something which is good, but never 'quite right'? I've spoken to a few people now with 'show scooters, which are covered in gold leaf, engraving, chroming and air-brushing etc....these are well into the £20k+ price bracket. All i can say is, i suppose there are worse ways to spend your money! lol

Take for example smoking, at £8 per day it’s a £3000 per year bill for fags….and all you’ll get from that is lung cancer! I have a pal who buys a new car every 3 to 4 years. It’ll usually be a top of the range BMW or Audi…..he might spend £30k+ on a vehicle, and in three years trade it in for half of that….having lost £10-15k+ ? So despite what money is (or is not) spent on scooter ownership, its all relative to the scooter owner. Those who like economy and to rag the arse off it rain or shine wouldn't dream of ever spending this kind of dosh.....and that's right for them, no issue there. But those who have the money, and get what they want, pay the associated price. Its freedom of choice and relative to desirability and budget.

An interesting topic and a contentious one for sure…… <img class="smilies" src="images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

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[drunkmunkey6969]

I assume you have some quotes and are wanting to compare/quantify them?

What figures have been put to you?


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[garry inglis]

I think that's answered that question dan and having just finished a build I have no change out of £6000

[drunkmunkey6969]

I think that's answered that question dan and having just finished a build I have no change out of £6000

Any idea on breakdown of parts vs labour?

Did you do engine build, chassis build, and paint yourself.....through a mate.....or outsource professionally?


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[garry inglis]

All done by myself and a lot of the prices in your original post have gone up now for instance rb200£500 crank£200 30mm Vhsh £200 franspeed race £300 so that's £1200 just for the kit


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[garry inglis]

On this build I kept a list of parts and price the li150 special £1800 plus kit £1200 and list below


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[garry inglis]

As you can see another £1836 on on 3 pages plus other bits


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[drunkmunkey6969]

All done by myself and a lot of the prices in your original post have gone up now for instance rb200£500 crank£200 30mm Vhsh £200 franspeed race £300 so that's £1200 just for the kit


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So all done by yourself, and cost was £6k for donor scooter and hi-spec parts list.

So feasibly if you'd paid an engine builder £600+/- and a painter £1800+/- and a mechanic £800+/- for chassis rebuild then you'd be £9000-£10,000 in overall costs?


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