Pipe Design S-Box Lambretta Exhaust

[Dimitrios_231]

What is the story with them?

http://www.pipedesign.de/home.html

Are they still in business, have they closed?



I'm trying to contact Marco Rentzman for ages,he doesn't reply,is he alive?

I'm not a facebook friend of him,I don't use facebook,I have sent him some messages,he never replied.



What type of attitude is this?

Is he only interested to take the money?

Does he care about after-sales service?



He sold me a problematic Lambretta S-Box exhaust long time ago,the exhaust needs cut and welding,it doesn't fit,

it wasn't cheap it costed me 320 euros,

I asked him three questions:



1)Can I return it to you and get full refund?
2)Can I send it back to you to fix it?
3)Can you pay all the extra cost if I give it to someone else to fix it?



Guess what,

I never got any reply.



Is he posting here?

Can anyone who knows him, inform him about this situation and tell him that this kind of behavior gives bad reputation to his business (if he cares).



I know many other people have similar problems with this exhaust,what have you done?

Is this a lost 320 euros case for me?



Thanks.

Video,
the exhaust is bolted as it should be,the stub is way out of the exhaust port,the studs don't line up with the stub.

[B-Race Tuning]

I can't help you re Pipe Design Dimitrios as I've had no dealings with them. I see it doesn't align with the stud holes, but is that sat gasket face to gasket face, and if so, could you put up a picture from square on from the front or rear? Is the ground clearance maybe lacking too, or is it the angle of the video?

[Grumpy225]

Almost looks like you need to rotate the stub 180. I'm sure you tried that but that's what it looks like.

[onthelam]

OK I'm not taking sides just stating what I think. (With maybe a slight bias that many people complain about bad suppliers or manufacturers but suppliers and manufacturers have no medium for complaining about bad customers.)

Are they still in business, have they closed?
I'm trying to contact Marco Rentzman for ages,he doesn't reply,is he alive?

How long has this been going on? My primary email for 15 years was cancelled so I chose another. Coincidentally just as the provider for the second one gave up and left us in the lurch, so for the last three weeks + (while my brother has been on holiday, long story) many people have complained to me that their personal emails didn't get through to me at the speed of light! Have you telephoned or... to ascertain if he did in fact receive your original email?

He sold me a problematic Lambretta S-Box exhaust long time ago,the exhaust needs cut and welding,it doesn't fit,...the exhaust is bolted as it should be,the stub is way out of the exhaust port,the studs don't line up with the stub...

Germans are not noted for sloppy workmanship but yes can be quite rigid.

So you bolted up the centre and rear brackets and the front doesn't appear to line up? Are all Lambretta , Italian/Indian/, exhaust support studs in exactly the same place across all models and all years? I don't think they were ever CNC'd.

What happens if you loosen the centre and rear nuts, reverse the stub as has been stated, and wiggle the whole thing around until it lines itself up and then see where any apparent misalignment actually is? There is probably some wiggle room ?
I sold an exhaust to a guy (not Lambretta) who complained about a similar thing. If I recall what he did was bolted the exhaust to the rear sub-frame and like you the front pipe wouldn't line up. I suggested that he did exactly that, loose fit the whole thing first then tighten up the exhaust flange , as that is the most important thing , and then see what exactly didn't line up.I never heard from him again!
With your exhaust flange bolted up apply some "English" to the system but don't bolt it up with any stress on the exhaust.
(Note: There is a reason that "fitters" in many trades serve apprenticeships and subsequently get paid more than "assemblers" who work on production lines after a few weeks training!)

I asked him three questions:
1)Can I return it to you and get full refund?
2)Can I send it back to you to fix it?
3)Can you pay all the extra cost if I give it to someone else to fix it?

Number 2 suggests that there is something wrong with the exhaust. Which we haven't yet ascertained.
Number 3 suggests that you expect to pay someone else for something that you can't do and then expect the seller/designer to pay for it. When maybe all you need is a rat tail file and a bit of elbow grease.
Number 1 is unrealistic as he wouldn't know exactly what condition the exhaust is currently in. He may offer to buy it back from you minus a "restocking charge", if you return it to him.

I know many other people have similar problems with this exhaust,what have you done?

Have you contacted them and asked what they did?

My suggestion if all this fails and you are truly unhappy with the system would be to sell it to someone who appreciates the design and who is willing to "fit" the exhaust to there own machine. Heck it looks different enough i might even buy it for the right price:-) and I haven't found my donor bike yet.

No malice intended, just how I see the situation.

[Dimitrios_231]

Hi,
oh boy,I have fitted so many Lambretta exhausts in my life,this one doesn't fit.
If I rotate 180 degrees the stub, the situation is the same or slightly worse,this is the 'good' stub position,it is also the only one that that will allow me to give a better entry angle to the exhaust port,with the stub fitted the other way,a big part of the port will need extra grinding.

The stub itself doesn't look too good for a 320 euros clubman,good thing is that I can grind it.


Some other people (S-Box buyers) are waiting for 6-7 months Mr Rentzman to reply to them,
they have contacted him,I haven't heard from anyone that he did help,
the usual action of him,is to 'do nothing',he must be a big Specials fan like me
I have waited a couple of months,I need the exhaust to start building an engine,I cannot wait anymore,
I would prefer an honest reply like,'look I know that the pipe is wrong,I cannot do something now,I'll fix it next year',
this guy has simply chosen to not reply,prefers to play play hide and seek,really bad move for him,

On the video,the two M8 (main bracket nuts) are bolted in the correct torque,same applies to the tailpipe nut,
the underside M8 bolt also is in line and there,in simple words,there is no way to move the exhaust body,
the stub face is parallel to the exhaust port face,they are very close,it will be quite difficult even to use a simple gasket.

On the beginning of May,first week,I got an automatically generated email reply from them (Pipe Design) that they are closing for 17 days,
so their email is working.

Simon,the ground clearance is not good,but I knew about this before I buy,I had seen pictures.
Here you can see it next to a Gori 50mm



I have tried fitting in many different cylinders and crankcases,it doesn't fit







This is the best that I can get if try to fit it like a normal exhaust,with the stub bolted first.

[Dimitrios_231]

I forgot the best one,
this is an official pic of the exhaust.

Did you notice something?
Yes, the stub is not fitted.



onthelam,I can happily sell it for you for 320 euros, plus postage,this is what it cost me.

[shocky]

Thats rubbish im sure a bit of heat in it would sort it out , but thb for 320 E you shouldnt need to and that welding looks amature to say the least

[Dimitrios_231]

There is no way a little heat to move the stub parallel to the exhaust port for such a distance,
I don't want to have any gasket leaks,
everything must be perfect there.

I know that the 'u-bend' needs to get cut,the stub to get tightened to the exhaust port studs,and then weld,
I cannot do this job,it will also cost me a lot of extra money.

[onthelam]

So in this position the "muffler" touches the fins? Or the stub flange won't bolt up to the cylinder. As it would seem an easy job to drill through that large flange where the spot welds are to bolt it to the transmission case.

Seems illogical that whole thing is that far off. Also seems illogical that the welding jig was that far out? Is there any difference between 225 big block cylinder and say 195 small block spacing? Is the exhaust port on all cylinders in the absolute centre of the cylinder. Sorry I don't know if that is the case?



Looks like if the second weld from the cylinder was cut the angles might work out that the discrepancy can be taken up there. But photos are only 2 dimensions while the exhaust maybe in 3? Difficult to tell.

I was looking at other exhausts and I think the S-box performance seems OK compared to other clubmans. So it is probably worth the effort to make it fit. I prefer the stock look:-) I was thinking Goro at 280 EU or Mito at 295 EU.

Have you tried a come-along across the U bend? to see if there is any flex/movement available?


How much it will cost to return it vs the cost of the welding? Sh1t happens in life, I get used to that out here. They'd brake an anvil if you gave them one.

[Dimitrios_231]

The exhaust doesn't fit,thank you for your interest,it needs cut and welding,I don't make exhausts,i won't start making now,
I pay for my exhausts,
I'm not going to spend any extra money on this before the designer contact me,
what if I try to modify it and do something wrong?
Will he accept it back?

The thing that you posted last, won't work,the exhaust 'u-bend' is formed with welded cones,if I stretch them they will break.
Cut and weld is the only solution.

I'm not going to spend any extra money on postage,the cost will be his.
If he had shown interest about the problem,I wouldn't mind to pay the postage,
I have spent a lot of money in non fitting Lambretta parts.

If he doesn't respond,he gets the bad name,bad for him,
no one can run successful scooter business for a long time with behavior like this.

If someone before me,had posted a similar thread few months ago,I wouldn't had lost valuable time and money with this product and company.