Re: TS1 245 38bhp / 26.14 ft.lbs
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:04 pm
yes?tony wrote:6 minutes ?
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TS1 245 38bhp / 26.14 ft.lbs
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Re: TS1 245 38bhp / 26.14 ft.lbs
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:37 pm
At what point would you normally take the peak power figure of this engine? The 40HP 'in the hope of keeping it alive' or the figure prior to it being backed off?Darrell Taylor wrote:ive backed the motors off to approx 40 in hope of keeping them alive
Re: TS1 245 38bhp / 26.14 ft.lbs
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:42 am
Most races are longer than that dan. Unless you bin it or suffer a problem. Maybe if they only did 6 laps of Lydden as the lap time is generally under a minute. But cadwell for example the general lap time is around 2.05 with a 6 lap race that's twice as much. They end to try to run a race around the ten to twelve minute mark in the vmcc.drunkmunkey6969 wrote:yes?tony wrote:6 minutes ?
Re: TS1 245 38bhp / 26.14 ft.lbs
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:42 am
In fact Paul would know for sure. Paul?
Re: TS1 245 38bhp / 26.14 ft.lbs
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:45 am
Adspeed wrote:At what point would you normally take the peak power figure of this engine? The 40HP 'in the hope of keeping it alive' or the figure prior to it being backed off?Darrell Taylor wrote:ive backed the motors off to approx 40 in hope of keeping them alive
ill quote a figure that i would consider sustainable on c.r. / ign timing / air fuel
on this motor its yet to be established,its ran happily before on the road at 42 ,but ive done some more work and seen 47+ on the same compression/a safe air fuel ratio of 12-1 and 17 degrees timing
ive found an issue with stinger size that would produce the piston failure symptoms ive seen but also ran without cowlings that may not be cooling as well? ive taken a step back and retarded to 14 deg and richened to 10-1(it splutters now) refitted the fan/cowlings and increased stinger size so will see if it holds up ?
at these horsepower levels on an aircooled motor im probably finding out for the first time as to whether or not its sustainable at 42 / 45 / 47 i may have to liquid cool
ive just dynoed a late model cr250 with a road tyre fitted that did 43bhp this model had a 100% increase in radiator size compared to the year earlier so shows that they had cooling problems too even at 43 with liquid cooling
Re: TS1 245 38bhp / 26.14 ft.lbs
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:51 am
tony wrote:Most races are longer than that dan. Unless you bin it or suffer a problem. Maybe if they only did 6 laps of Lydden as the lap time is generally under a minute. But cadwell for example the general lap time is around 2.05 with a 6 lap race that's twice as much. They end to try to run a race around the ten to twelve minute mark in the vmcc.drunkmunkey6969 wrote:yes?tony wrote:6 minutes ?
lol....oh dear, Mr Pedantic strikes again
The numbers are arbitrary, I was illustrating the difference between a sprint, a race meet, an occasional rider and a year round rally goer, that's is all.Although its not just Lydden, your own lap times from a 3 lap race at Cadwell below....6 mins 11 seconds.
http://vespasmallframeforum.proboards.c ... hread=1899
RESULT - RACE 20 - EVENT 23
Pl/No/Evt/ Name / Machine / Laps / Time / MPH / Best Lap / on / MPH
1/601/23/ Charles EDMONDS/ Lambretta SX 204/ 3/ 6:09.88/ 63.65/ 2:01.07/ 2/ 64.82
2 621 23 Tony O‘BRIEN Vespa SS 153/ 3 /6:11.13 /63.44 1:58.81 3 66.06
3 667 23 Richard CONNEELY Lambretta Inter 200 3 6:11.69 63.34 1:59.84 3 65.49
4 638 23 Stuart DAY Lambreta GP 200 3 6:12.55 63.20 1:59.46 2 65.70
5 653 23 James CAMPEN Lambretta GP 200 3 6:15.33 62.73 2:00.07 3 65.36..........
I dare say Lydden race times would be circa 6 mins, as would perhaps 3-sisters also?.....but what the hell 6 minutes, 6 laps, 8 minutes, 10 minutes??? It doesn't matter....its not 15 seconds, and its not a full rally season, im sure you get the point.
Re: TS1 245 38bhp / 26.14 ft.lbs
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:02 am
You are not wrong there Darrell, heat issues are the devil for these machines. But one thing is for sure, you have got more power out of your machines than any tuner (especially when taking RPM/spread of power and available torque into consideration). No one else is publishing power graphs at 47bhp. Figures in the 47+ bracket are very hard to come by, especially at sub 10k RPM....so good for you. If you solve the heat issues your engines will be a formidable weapon on the track.......Darrell Taylor wrote:[ at these horsepower levels on an aircooled motor im probably finding out for the first time as to whether or not its sustainable at 42 / 45 / 47 i may have to liquid cool
ive just dynoed a late model cr250 with a road tyre fitted that did 43bhp this model had a 100% increase in radiator size compared to the year earlier so shows that they had cooling problems too even at 43 with liquid cooling
Re: TS1 245 38bhp / 26.14 ft.lbs
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:21 am
drunkmunkey6969 wrote:tony wrote: Most races are longer than that dan. Unless you bin it or suffer a problem. Maybe if they only did 6 laps of Lydden as the lap time is generally under a minute. But cadwell for example the general lap time is around 2.05 with a 6 lap race that's twice as much. They end to try to run a race around the ten to twelve minute mark in the vmcc.
lol....oh dear, Mr Pedantic strikes again
Although its not just Lydden, your own lap times from a 3 lap race at Cadwell below....6 mins 11 seconds.
http://vespasmallframeforum.proboards.c ... hread=1899
RESULT - RACE 20 - EVENT 23
Pl/No/Evt/ Name / Machine / Laps / Time / MPH / Best Lap / on / MPH
1/601/23/ Charles EDMONDS/ Lambretta SX 204/ 3/ 6:09.88/ 63.65/ 2:01.07/ 2/ 64.82
2 621 23 Tony O‘BRIEN Vespa SS 153/ 3 /6:11.13 /63.44 1:58.81 3 66.06
3 667 23 Richard CONNEELY Lambretta Inter 200 3 6:11.69 63.34 1:59.84 3 65.49
4 638 23 Stuart DAY Lambreta GP 200 3 6:12.55 63.20 1:59.46 2 65.70
5 653 23 James CAMPEN Lambretta GP 200 3 6:15.33 62.73 2:00.07 3 65.36..........
I dare say Lydden race times would be circa 6 mins, as would perhaps 3-sisters also?.....but what the hell 6 minutes, 6 laps, 8 minutes, 10 minutes??? It doesn't matter....its not 15 seconds, and its not a full rally season, im sure you get the point.
Ha. That about was a shortened race of 3 laps Mr Pedantic due to earlier incidents during the day. Glad you had time to go search. My point about the time is that with air cooled if incorrectly tuned or set up the longer the race the more they will be affected. You will see this if you go back through air cooled lap times. You can see the efficient motors and the not so.
But yes sprint motors can be run much nearer the line to gain power in theory as they only run hard for say15 secs.
Re: TS1 245 38bhp / 26.14 ft.lbs
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:27 am
Not a bad lap time tho eh dan 
Re: TS1 245 38bhp / 26.14 ft.lbs
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:29 am
Always the bridesmaid, never the bride! loltony wrote:Not a bad lap time tho eh dan
Just kidding......yes its a very good lap indeed, you actually got fastest lap of the race on that meet. I chopped that bit off at the bottom as I didn't want your ego getting any bigger