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Standard everything except

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:45 am
by CANbus
Hi All,

I'm thinking of getting a new engine (RLC SS or simalar) for my S3 Li 150.
I'm undecided on the size of the engine at this stage.
I was wondering however if anyone is running a 20bhp+ engine with standard brakes and suspension?
What's the stopping and handling experience?

I don'r really want to start adding a disc brake or front dampeners if I can help it etc.

Thanks.

Re: Standard everything except

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:53 pm
by GeorgeS
I have my GT240 (should be 20bhp+) on standard brakes and I'd say it's reasonable for normal use but my feeling is that if I needed to stop quick or got in some kind of trouble I'd probably find them insufficient. The only deviation I have from 100% standard is a jockeys boxenstop thing on the rear to cater for any bad setup on the SIL cases.

On the front end I have no dampers but have changed very old standard springs to MB progressive and that made a massive positive handling benefit. For the low cost & no change in outward appearance I would recommend this change. I use a BGM shock on the rear.

I'm hoping this reported rear brake comes to production at some point:
https://www.scooterlab.uk/hydra-hydraul ... ta-news-2/
Again, something outwardly that looks standard but in theory would give you an excellent rear brake.

Regards,
George.

Re: Standard everything except

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:18 pm
by GTFOMWSC
i have a 28bhp super monza that i first off used standard front brake but octopus rear set up,found the rear spot on it seemed to stop better than my other standard looking rear set up.The front however was a different story after having to make a couple of quick stops it was worrying to say the least so i would not recomend having a standard front if you are upping your bhp.I since have changed to a double disc front end and am far happier stopping quickly and safely with it.

Re: Standard everything except

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:44 pm
by coaster
The problem isn't not being able to stop, its not being able to stop as quickly as the vehicle in front. The standard Lambretta brakes were made for use in another era when no road vehicles and not too many racing cars had dick brakes, now all wheel discs and anti-lock brakes are very common. IMHO, you should upgrade your brakes/tyres/suspension before significantly increasing your engine power

Re: Standard everything except

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:24 pm
by Muttley McLadd
Wah shield up...

Is this a troll?
"Do I need to make my bike slow down and handle better if I make the engine put out four times the power?"

Re: Standard everything except

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:59 am
by onthelam
I believe with some fettling and a reverse cable set up a std. drum brake can be made to do a "stoppie" so my answer would be get the most out of the std. set up and then see.

Re: Standard everything except

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:41 am
by hendy
onthelam wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:59 am
I believe with some fettling and a reverse cable set up a std. drum brake can be made to do a "stoppie" so my answer would be get the most out of the std. set up and then see.
I ran a 23ish bhp tuned gt186 with standard brakes in excellent condition. It was unpleasant and required a good deal of forward planning to stop. When I changed to reverse pull drum you could indeed pull a stoppy but it was difficuilt to use the front progressively. So much so that I reverted to standard. Anyway, I won't be doing it again. My current build has internal hydraulic disc and I'm going external on the next one.

Re: Standard everything except

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:00 am
by nick b
I live in spain and brought an outboard frontdisc which I have found excellent only problem is it failed its mot as it is non standard, so I had to take it off until I got the mot pass then put it back on . I can get it legalised by an engineers report [500 euros] or risk getting a heavy fine if iam caught using it so I have decided to go back to standard, can anyone point me in the direction of the most effective way to get my front drum brake to stop

Re: Standard everything except

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:13 pm
by EddieStone
nick b wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:00 am
I live in spain and brought an outboard frontdisc which I have found excellent only problem is it failed its mot as it is non standard, so I had to take it off until I got the mot pass then put it back on . I can get it legalised by an engineers report [500 euros] or risk getting a heavy fine if iam caught using it so I have decided to go back to standard, can anyone point me in the direction of the most effective way to get my front drum brake to stop
I use a reverse pull drum brake on my chop after I rebuilt the front end. The new shoes took a while to bed in and the stopping power was hopeless. The reverse pull certainly helped. Now the shoes have bed in more, the front brake is pretty impressive.

The warning is to always make sure your shoes have plenty of lining on them and to renew them before they get too worn. If they get too worn the brake cam jams and the hub locks solid. Not only will this likely separate you from your bike in a most surprising manner, you won't be able to release the brake which is likely to scrap the hub. [I've never heard this happening to anyone though....]

It certainly improves the efficiency of the front brake and keeps it standard looking. If I was riding a 20+hp scoot, I would fit a disc brake, especially if riding two up with camping gear. That's a lot of momentum to halt. A 6hp scooter can get away with a drum brake. In 1963, anyway.

Re: Standard everything except

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:36 pm
by nick b
I thought the reverse pull was only effective for the original disc brakes .is it only a matter of turning it all around 180 degrees or buying one of those allstyles kits I seem to remember some scooterists done this in the 80s but being young and stupid I didn't really care about decent tyres and the ability to stop so i didn't really look at it but these days I realise iam not invincible