EU, in or out?

Fun and obscure stuff, anything 'off topic' goes...
timexit17
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I see the argument why the Dave & Gideon show should sort the s**t out since they are still steering the ship, however normally when a hiccup/total shitstorm/armageddon hits a government it is because of unforeseen outside effects or when those steering have crashed the UK onto the rocks due to incompetence or deliberately and clearly they then have to take charge.

Clearly D&G believe strongly they are going to look s**t and get the blame for everything from the value of the £ to the latest plot on eastenders for years/decades to come, along with those other well known scapegoats the Labour party, the trade unions, the EU, other countries etc.....ad nauseum.

That being the case they have very understandably left this gigantic s**t sandwich/heroic & patriotic victory for any of the architects of said situation to deal with.

If Boris et al are so confident they are right and everyone else is wrong then they now have a golden opportunity to shut their many detractors and half the country up.
I suggest that if they want the article 50 button to get any more than a very cautious dusting before October/November (or 2-10 years/Never depending on whom you believe) they get themselves round to the (unelected) 1922 committee and start buttering up those in real power in the tory party.

The leave camp were awfully sure of themselves before June 24th, so I suggest they follow up on their pledges and promises.

If you don't like your job you are free to walk away (UK Law), so are they.
Both could either return to the backbenches as MPs and sit out their tenure on £65k a year or resign as MP's -this won't hurt them as they are both millionaires and have plenty of connections to get a cushy job elsewhere and it won't hurt the tory party either since you could put a monkey in a Boris Johnson suit into either with a blue rosette on and they'd be elected.
psychedelicropcircle
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So is it just me but this has a feel of an anticlimax. The leave team seems to have melted away. For a country that says it doesn't like uncertainty, why hasn't that article 50 button been pressed, both sides look weak when EU officials are saying get on with it. I'm also of the opinion that you won't get a deal with the EU without freedom of movement attached. I can't see any politicians even considering walking away because of it. How will that make the brexiteers feel then? In a weaker position and still having FOM. That just leaves trade deals outside the eu to try and claw credibility back. It's early doors but this is not being delt with a confidence.
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diesel
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Ever get the feeling you've been had?. You shouldn't be surprised when a man who has lost a couple of jobs for being a liar, has lied to you. You know you're in trouble when you look for a leader to guide you to the "sunlit uplands" and that leader seems most likely to be Boris Johnson. How shite do the others have to be to make that look good. It turns out there was no plan A never mind plan B. Share prices rise and fall, currencies fluctuate that sort of thing may come good again but when you look to the current government that are expected to fix things and then cast an eye over the opposition who are supposed to hold them to account if they don't, you should be very worried indeed.
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coaster
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diesel wrote:Ever get the feeling you've been had?. You shouldn't be surprised when a man who has lost a couple of jobs for being a liar, has lied to you. You know you're in trouble when you look for a leader to guide you to the "sunlit uplands" and that leader seems most likely to be Boris Johnson. How shite do the others have to be to make that look good. It turns out there was no plan A never mind plan B. Share prices rise and fall, currencies fluctuate that sort of thing may come good again but when you look to the current government that are expected to fix things and then cast an eye over the opposition who are supposed to hold them to account if they don't, you should be very worried indeed.
All of that plus the predicted rise in racism showing itself already :roll: We are in for some very unpleasant times :( But hey ho, apparently this is all boring and we should move on now
storkfoot
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psychedelicropcircle wrote:... I'm also of the opinion that you won't get a deal with the EU without freedom of movement attached. ...
I pretty much agree. I'd be very surprised if, when we look back in 5 years, there's any material difference to the levels of immigration we see now. The EU will drive a hard bargain and, as free movement is a cornerstone of the EU, that'll be a pre-requisite of any agreements we can reach with them.

Also, we'll still need thousands and thousands of foreign students each year to balance the books of our universities and we'll still need fruit pickers, farm workers, care workers, waiters/waitresses and tradespeople from Europe to do the jobs that British people either can't or won't do. Unless, of course, our economy does go back into recession and we don't need them.

Oh, and for all those who want to stop illegal entrants getting into the UK, well nothing will change their either. We have never been a signatory to the Schengen agreement anyway and the only practical way to reduce the number of people illegally travelling across European borders would be to scrap this and reintroduce border controls across Europe. Again, Schengen is a cornerstone of the EU so that is going nowhere either.

One thing that may well happen as a result of our "Leave" vote is that the French may well look to renegotiate our agreement with them which allows juxtaposed UK Border Force immigration officers operating along the French coast. That'll mean that the first we know of all illegal entrants is when they arrive in the UK and become our responsibility. On this point, our government could properly resource our Border Force and Customs and Excise staff at the ports. They could, in theory, check every vehicle that comes into the UK. However, is the British public and the haulage companies ready for queuing for hours for board a ferry back to the UK from the French ports? I think not, not just because of the public outcry but because it would really harm our economy.

So, in essence, in my opinion, if you voted "Leave" to reduce immigration, I suspect you are going to be disappointed when you look back in 5 years.
mick1
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Quote: "All of that plus the predicted rise in racism showing itself already :roll: We are in for some very unpleasant times :( But hey ho, apparently this is all boring and we should move on now"

Unfortunately it's started. I was queuing in Tesco today behind a young Polish couple with 2 kids........the young lass behind the till blatantly asked them if they needed help packing :o
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Muttley McLadd
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mick1 wrote: Unfortunately it's started. I was queuing in Tesco today behind a young Polish couple with 2 kids........the young lass behind the till blatantly asked them if they needed help packing :o
Chcesz pomocy opakowanie? :lol:
CakeAndArseParty
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Doom Patrol
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Controlling immigration was always a nonsense and can't be done when so many eastern Europeans live here anyway. Unless you are prepared to abandon all our civilised principles, and I don't think any of us would want that.
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coaster
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mick1 wrote:Quote: "All of that plus the predicted rise in racism showing itself already :roll: We are in for some very unpleasant times :( But hey ho, apparently this is all boring and we should move on now"

Unfortunately it's started. I was queuing in Tesco today behind a young Polish couple with 2 kids........the young lass behind the till blatantly asked them if they needed help packing :o
Regrettably a very serious point reduced to childish humour :roll:
warts
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Another point I have not seen mentioned at all: Much of university funding comes from European research grants, not the students- they are mostly a cost overhead. My neighbour has been put on notice that unless the European grant which funded his research to the tune of millions is renewed, he and his team will be unemployed. He could see no alternative but to emigrate just so he can support his young family. So the brain drain will start again, and many of this countries brightest will follow the money into Europe or perhaps China. That will help the countries long term prosperity won't it.

Maybe your local uni is an ex poly which has mostly vocational courses, but big, proper universities like Cambridge have huge research facilities, much from overseas. Without the funding they are unsustainable.
The research results are a highly valuable commodity, both for alleviating the human condition and financially, but they have first to be funded and staffed. And the benefits, in jobs, money and prestige will follow the funding
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