EU, in or out?

Fun and obscure stuff, anything 'off topic' goes...
a.j
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The EU sells a lot more to us than we sell to them. In 2014 there was a trade deficit of over £50bn, with a current account deficit of nearly £100 billion. It seems unlikely that the EU would seek to disrupt a trade which is so beneficial to itself.

– Moreover, the Lisbon Treaty stipulates that the EU must make a trade agreement with a country which leaves the EU.

– World Trade Organization rules lay down basic rules for international trade by which both the EU and UK are obliged to abide. These alone would guarantee the trade upon which most of those 3 million jobs rely.

Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU, yet they export far more per capita to the EU than the UK does; this suggests that EU membership is not a prerequisite for a healthy trading relationship.
10 inch Terror
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Spanish Fly wrote:
10 inch Terror wrote:Without us it's finished.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Very mature of you. Other countries are waiting on the outcome of our referendum. If we leave, others will follow for sure.
mick1
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The irony of all this is devolution. With more parts of Britain wanting devolution and more local control of running their own affairs, we are entering a stage in Europe where more control over the UK is made by bureaucrats in Brussels. With more localized control being given to local authorities and the EU making our laws, it does make you wonder why we need a British government ?
wayne cudine
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warts wrote:We don't want to be remembering that the longest sustained period of economic stability this country has known since the start of the First World War happened while we have been members of the EU do we?

The crash of 2007 was triggered by the collapse of Lehman Bros, causing a chain reaction across the US and into other highly de regulated econcomies like the UK - had it not been for the strength of the EU, and its determination to help, this country would have been bankrupt again.
It's a hard and cruel world out there. Our economic friends are across the water - in Europe, where they have a vested interest in us being successful. Going the other way, the US always saw us as the competitor to beat - the real reason for taking trillions of £££'s for armaments in WW1 until we were bankrupt and reliant on them. Ditto WW2, but having no money, that time we had to pay with our technology. No, the US is not our friend, willing enough to trade on their terms, but friend? Special Relationships? Not so much.

The big money which wants to be able to play fast and loose with shady deals in the Caymans, Isle of Man or Jersey wants out because the EU wants the money market controls of the EU banished, so they can continue to pursue their selfish agendas.
Big business wants in because they need economic and financing stability and access to the vast European market. How long will the rump of manufacturing remain in UK if they have to deal with tariffs from Europe? It was to get under the tariff barrier that Far Eastern manufacturers came here in the first place. Maybe goodbye Honda, Nissan and Toyota - taking the 10,000's of jobs with them to more secure and stable ecomomies elsewhere.

For all its many faults, leaving the EU will be the biggest disaster in this countries history since not joining when invited in the early 1950's.



We wanted to join in the 1950's but were stopped on the express orders of the war"hero" Charlse de Gaul who hated us for " abandoning" France at Dunkirk and for basically being British even though we gave him refuge and let him" liberate" Paris.
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diesel
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a.j wrote:The EU sells a lot more to us than we sell to them..

– World Trade Organization rules lay down basic rules for international trade by which both the EU and UK are obliged to abide. These alone would guarantee the trade upon which most of those 3 million jobs rely.

Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU, yet they export far more per capita to the EU than the UK does; this suggests that EU membership is not a prerequisite for a healthy trading relationship.
Roughly half of all UK trade is done with the EU. The UK accounts for roughly 7% of German exports. That's a lot less than 50%. The Germans have a lot less on the table than the British. The Irish have most to lose in the event of brexit given that 15% of their exports go to the UK that's still a lot less than 50% that you sell to The EU.

The WTO itself says that British consumers would end up paying billions in tariffs making it more expensive to buy goods and less competitive to export goods Britain would have to renegotiate its relationship with it given that current treaties were negotiated on behalf of all EU states by the EU and Britain was Included as a member of the EU at the time it couldn't just "cut and paste" but would have to engage in "tortuous" treaty talks with all individual WTO members separately. That's what the WTO says.

Norway and Switzerland pay for their access to the EU they have to abide by EU rules but unlike Britain they have no democratic input into the making of those rules. They have reciprocal free movement arrangements same as you do,so if you managed to cut a deal similar to the one it's taken Switzerland decades to achieve you wouldnt have done anything to stop or slow immigration.
timexit17
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Herman wrote:
10 inch Terror wrote:And what exactly have Le Pen or Trump got to do with the Brexit campaign? All this anyone voting out is a bigoted little Englander is getting a bit tedious now.
I didn't mention bigoted. I did mention Trump and Le Pen as, as far as I can see, they are the only politicians outside the UK who are in support of Brexit.
You forgot putin.

another non EU leader with his own reasons for wanting the EU to split.
Meds
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If you want to find out what will happen to trade after Brexit
Go and watch this,
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y
I found it enlightening, coming from someone who knows what he is talking about and understands how it all works.
For me it debunks 3 big EU exit myths.
1. Sovereignty
2. Undemocratic
3. Trade will stay the same.
The really worrying bits that completly bypassed me in the debate
The legal system review and practical mechanism for legal system restructuring, it won't be done by parliament!
The official position of America, China and India on trade!
And for those who think he is scaremongering, please present a person of similar standing in this field to debunk what he is saying based on evidence.
Please note he expressly separates, his Opinion from Facts and doesn't mix them up.
Spanish Fly
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10 inch Terror wrote:
Spanish Fly wrote:
10 inch Terror wrote:Without us it's finished.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Very mature of you. Other countries are waiting on the outcome of our referendum. If we leave, others will follow for sure.
Did you count the lols? 27. Geddit?
Last edited by Spanish Fly on Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jonzo172
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I'm still out!
Spanish Fly
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I'm interested to know what people contributing to this thread do for a living and how it affects their decision making.
To kick things off:

Self employed engineering designer.
For over 20 years I worked for a manufacturing, and exporting, company.
Unfortunately I now rely on government contracts to make a living.

I'm in.

SF
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