EU, in or out?

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Meds
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Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:13 am

If we leave the EU it will present a major headache for the for those who have voted leave.
Who can they blame for the mess we are in.
Or will they have to realise that
1 destruction of the Heath service is a Tory party policy
2 the inability to deal with immigration is a UK border problem
3 the failure to deport illegals is a UK court problem
4 shortage of social housing and high rents are a result of Tory party policy of selling council houses.
5 the way we deal with laws and red tape is a function of how our society functions

But hey there will be an up side
UKIP won't need to exist any more

10 inch Terror
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Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:19 am

Meds wrote:If we leave the EU it will present a major headache for the for those who have voted leave.
Who can they blame for the mess we are in.
Or will they have to realise that
1 destruction of the Heath service is a Tory party policy
2 the inability to deal with immigration is a UK border problem
3 the failure to deport illegals is a UK court problem
4 shortage of social housing and high rents are a result of Tory party policy of selling council houses.
5 the way we deal with laws and red tape is a function of how our society functions

But hey there will be an up side
UKIP won't need to exist any more
So how will remaining in the EU help any of the above issues? If UKIP disappear we are left with the Tories or Liebour both are responsibly for the UK's current state. We have had 70 years of Tory / Liebour mis-rule who else can we turn to? People being accused of narrow mindedness for turning to UKIP but I see it as desperation more than anything else. What have either 'major' party done for the average Joe on the street?

Shipleystevep
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Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:30 am

Not surprised, I thought Farage outperformed Dave last night and against more hostile questioners. Dave never once tackled the issue of uncontrolled immigration except by repeating that staying in the EU meant a stronger economy capable of supporting an uncontrolled population.

Not the right answer I'm afraid

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coaster
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Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:53 am

10 inch Terror wrote:...... What have either 'major' party done for the average Joe on the street?
This could turn into a "What have the Romans ever done for us" list but from the top of my head, Labour introduced the National Health Service although I think the idea might have been from the Liberal party. Workers rights in conjunction with the trade unions, Social housing, in fact most of what you take for granted. The torries I'm not so sure but for sure, all of the above have been eroded during their term. Farrage represents a party way further to the right than the torries with support from people that would stand to gain from even further destruction of what we would regard as the fabric of our daily lives. We fought a war to remove fascism from Europe but we are gullibly opening the door to it now....depressing :(

10 inch Terror
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Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:47 am

And does the Labour Party represent the working man now? It was hijacked in the 70's by Marxists and champagne socialists in the 90's. It now has a Hamas / IRA supporting ban the bomb hand the Falklands back loony as its leader. How does he represent me or other working people? That Odious man Peter Mandleson openly admits to sending search parties abroad to encourage new voters to come to the UK. Do not confuse the Labour Party of the 1930's with the Labour Party of 2016. They are two completely different things.

wayne cudine
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Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:09 am

I can't believe that they are looking at re-opening the website to register for the referendum as all the idiots who crashed the site have known the cut off date/time and if they left it too late it should be tough titty for them.
Also the idea of the remain side threatening to ignore the will of the people and keep us in even if we vote out(hopefully) after constantly telling everyone the this is" the biggest decision of our time". If they do that they will probably cause a bloody civil war. The bleeding idiots.

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EddieStone
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Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:33 am

Since the referendum has been proposed, the nation has been split between in or out. I think from now on the nation will always be divided between in or out, and the blame for any national problem will be levelled at the other side. Personally I think the referendum is a divisive move to the detriment of the country however it votes. I expect the government to make the right decision for the country and they haven't, they've bottled it to stop tories going to UKIP.

Chris Patten probably put it better than I can: "I think referendums are awful. The late and great Julian Critchley used to say that—not very surprisingly—they were the favourite form of plebiscitary democracy of Mussolini and Hitler. They undermine Westminster. What they ensure, as we saw in the last election, is that if you have a referendum on an issue, politicians during an election campaign say: "Oh, we're not going to talk about that, we don't need to talk about that, that's all for the referendum." So during the last election campaign, the euro was hardly debated. I think referendums are fundamentally anti-democratic in our system, and I wouldn't have anything to do with them. On the whole, governments only concede them when governments are weak."

If there's one thing we do have, it's a weak government, with a weak leader that has very poor judgement who wouldn't stand firm when threatened by UKIP. Then, when the referendum is announced, it turns out the government has an opinion after all, which is to stay in the EU! If it's a referendum then the government shouldn't be 'advising' us which way to vote.

This referendum makes the government even weaker, in my opinion. They are just making failure look like democracy.

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jonzo172
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Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:35 am

wayne cudine wrote:Also the idea of the remain side threatening to ignore the will of the people and keep us in even if we vote out(hopefully) after constantly telling everyone the this is" the biggest decision of our time".
How very European! :lol:

dave wheeler
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Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:41 pm

spot on eddie stone!

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coaster
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Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:58 pm

dave wheeler wrote:spot on eddie stone!
+1 :cry:

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